Skill Cap

[SigmaCaine]

I know that Vinny posted his solution to the high numbers of having a skill cap that total ranks (including bonuses from House skills) cannot exceed half the Avatar's level. I don't see it in the rulebook now - was it being kept?

If it is, can I recommend making it read "half of level, rounded up"? Here's the reasoning:
Last night, Cappy and I sat around and played with numbers. With the cap of half, we kept running into the situation where he would buy the max ranks allowable by level and then the next level, one of his House Skills would grant him one more level that he wasn't allowed to use until the following one. Example: at level 6, Cappy has one rank of Edged Weapons granted by Weapon Familiarity. He also purchases two ranks, giving him a total of 3 ranks in Edged Weapons, the max allowed by the level cap. But at level 7, he gains Weapon Mastery, which grants him another level - which he can't use, because that would bump him up to Edged 4, which he can't technically buy until level 8. It's just a weird math thing.

[Alf Cunha]

can I recommend making it read "half of level, rounded up"? Here's the reasoning:  With the cap of half, we kept running into the situation where he would buy the max ranks allowable by level and then the next level, one of his House Skills would grant him one more level that he wasn't allowed to use until the following one.

**  This does become unwieldy for every house with skill improvements (because they're ALWAYS gained at odd levels).  Is there a way of easily amending the issue without pushing the skill levels up?  Rounding up IS the easiest way of doing it, but I don't like the idea of getting these uber-level skills any earlier than we're already getting them (of course, I'm a fan of simplicity - so I'm looking for any suggestions).

[D]

You know I hate to be a downer but I gotta say that the rounded down idea is a much better defense against the uber-crack skill levels, and making a character more balanced.  It makes the members of houses with freebies invest in things other than their skill, say like solid stats, or powers, or other not specialty skills.  It makes you think about how to round out your character, which is what we want right, instead of minmaxxing twinks?

[SigmaCaine]

Well, actually, the problem isn't so much min-maxing as just an odd mathematical discrepancy. So Cappy Zoom buys Edged 2 at level 6. He's only spent 15 total AP on the skill and only a little in AGI. Not exaclty what I'd call twinking. There's only so many skills he could buy that would make sense for the character. It really only comes about because of what Alf said - the proficiency-addding House Skills come about at odd levels, while the cap favors even levels.

[LucasJamison]

**  This does become unwieldy for every house with skill improvements (because they're ALWAYS gained at odd levels).  Is there a way of easily amending the issue without pushing the skill levels up?  Rounding up IS the easiest way of doing it, but I don't like the idea of getting these uber-level skills any earlier than we're already getting them (of course, I'm a fan of simplicity - so I'm looking for any suggestions).

Tier = ROUNDUP(Level / 2)
Skill Cap = ROUNDUP(Level / 2)

They should track the same.  I see no other simple, solution, save to remove the skill cap, which it seems that most people agree is a worse idea.

[LucasJamison]

You know I hate to be a downer but I gotta say that the rounded down idea is a much better defense against the uber-crack skill levels, and making a character more balanced.  It makes the members of houses with freebies invest in things other than their skill, say like solid stats, or powers, or other not specialty skills.  It makes you think about how to round out your character, which is what we want right, instead of minmaxxing twinks?

This way, you're either stuck in a position of buying one less proficiency level than would be appropriate for your character, knowing that if you wait a level, it will balance out, or you wind up with a proficiency that you must wait a level to use.  At higher level, this means having skills that you cannot use for a year or more.  This will lead to confusion and problems, why not just round up?

[D]

It is exactly because it'll take a year or more at the higher levels.  It adds in a "time to learn and master" aspect.  You're being taught by the house, and adapting to the way the house does buisness.  You can't tell me that that is a terrible thing.

[LucasJamison]

It is exactly because it'll take a year or more at the higher levels.  It adds in a "time to learn and master" aspect.  You're being taught by the house, and adapting to the way the house does buisness.  You can't tell me that that is a terrible thing.

Not a terrible thing, just... that's not how ANYTHING else in the game works - you gain the full benefits of all other skills the moment you obtain them.  For the stacking-bonus house skills, you'd have to wait a level to gain the benefits in some cases.  Why the discrepency?

[wcshoe]

REMOVE ALL CAPS! MIN-MAX! MIN-MAX!

In pretty much every case, the MIN is gonna get ya!

[Mack Ravensline]

There is one case where you round up for levels and that is Luck Bonuses. For these skill caps it could be the same. There is a precedent.

[SigmaCaine]

Here's a point that has absolutely ZERO to do with twinking:

At level 1, several Houses are granted one proficiency in a stackable skill (i.i Ares Weapon Familiarity). They cannot use the skill. Yes, they'll hit level 2 soon enough - but you can't say they're twinking to try and use their granted first tier-ability.

Also, it's a balance thing - why should some Houses have to wait to use their granted abilities, when others do not?

Of course, all this is a moot point if Vinny has decided not to keep the skill cap thing

[SigmaCaine]

Any word on this?

[wcshoe]

  I dislike caps on skills - there is already a cap in place for them, by setting prerequisite stats. If you set a cap, eventually every Avatar will be the same at 15th level, 50 years down the road...

  On the other hand, I like pie. More pie for all Avatars!

[SigmaCaine]

I also like pie. Pie for everyone! :-D

But Vinny had stated there would be caps in response to the huge numbers of the skills; however, I can't find it in the rules and if it is can we round up? That's basically the only questions out there now.

[wcshoe]

Vinny # 27? or Vinny # 43?

Also, you must remember, Vinny # 98 tells nothing but lies, whereas Vinny # 99 tells nothing but truth. The two of them stalk dungeons, confounding adventurers...