Special rules for Domains

[wcshoe]

((Just as an OOC note - when someone walks into a domain, you have to tell them the rules of that domain, whether it be as simple as "Please try not to fight" or as detailed as things like Real death with a hole punch, powers/genres that don't work, etc.  Just make sure you bring it up next time someone walks in - they realize it IC and have the option of not entering on that basis.

I agree completely on the one point - you should have been told all the special rules regarding the Domain before entering.

However, I disagree on a minor point. I was rather under the impression that it was OOC knowledge only - why would a character suddenly know details about a Domain he has never been in? If the Player disagrees with the rules, the character can't get in - but why should he know why? All he knows is that 'Mysterious Forces' prevent him from entering.


e.g. New Aldaraan¹: Undead characters find themselves in living bodies there - vampires become normal humans (or whatever race trhey were before being 'turned'), etc. Cartoon characters find themselves in real bodies that obey normal Terran rulesets (no Cartoon Powers).

If they have never been there, never heard of the place, they shouldn't have pre-knowledge that the rules will change them. On the other hand, their players would, and have the choice of not allowing them in (no matter how much the Characters may want to go in). If they choose to go in anyway, their first IC clue that there are different rules in effect should not happen until those different rules actually take effect.


¹: Just two of the conditions of that domain. By no means the only conditions.

[D]

Actually, there are some pretty long standing precedents for rules not being imparted, IC or OOC.  (And yeah, I'm reasonably sure they're still good in 3.x)

The details on Sanctuary, and what actions carry consequences, have never ever been completely divulged.  Mainly because no one has been stupid enough to trigger them. 

Traps and deception are hallmark tools of GM's, and up to a point, reagents are GM's within their domains and territories.  However, that is not to say or imply that their power is unlimited.  While Nexal Death, hole punch and all that jazz,  can occur in territories and domains, the avatar rises again outside in proper.  Wound and energy regeneration, is up to the reagent.  Immediate departure from a external land has never been questioned or denied, as long as the departee is capable of requisite intent, and has been treated under that heading of "consensual RP". 

For that matter, the majority of RP in external lands has traditionally fallen under that heading.  What is required most is a sense of trust that the GM/Reagent is being consistent and fair in their calls.  Because pretty much if you can't trust the reagent, why in the hell would you be putting yourself at such a huge disadvantage?

But once the avatar is back in proper, anything pertaining to themselves that was a matter of consensual RP, is up to them as to whether it maintains any effect.  So again there's a trust issue, that calls for a little bit of honorable consistency.  AKA, Nobody's going to GM for you, if you get back into proper, and suddenly everything they built up with you storywise, now is worthless.  Escape and restore your self as necessary, but don't keep running into dangerous situations, run away form them, all the while thumbing your nose at consequences, and expect the community to like and play with you on a frequent basis.

"Audaces fortuna iuvat"   

[wcshoe]

Well, details on Sanctuary, or any Domain for that matter, shouldn't be divulged, but learned through RP.

However, you still need to tell people what actual Game Mechanics are either changed or suspended while in your Domain.

No, I don't need to tell the player that the inhabitants of Hyran's Domain can do certain things, or that there is a trap on level 31 of the hanger. I do need to tell players that Fantasy based Powers will not work unless the player can explain how their character uses them in terms of the Star Wars Universe. (Thus, Hyran could heal somebody, but visiting Merlin the Wizard could not.)

[Dragontologist]

As far as IC/OOC - the reasons are somewhat similar, because using the OOC knowledge is bordering on metagaming.  It's just one of those things you "know" - however your character chooses to interpret it.

The reason we try to get people to explain the (game mechanic-changing) rules before opening is as Dering said - "Consentual RP"  If you explain the rules, and they still choose to walk in, they are bound to follow through even when things don't go as they want. 

Sidenote:  Of course, if it reaches a point of abuse by the GM of that domain, that's possibly a different story - remember that the GM's and assistant GM's objectives are to keep the players happy more than following the rules 100% (hence Manifestations - rulebreakers by definition).  Doesn't mean they'll do it often, but if something is screaming out of control and you're about to drop the character rather than deal with it . . . well, talk to someone.

[LucasJamison]

Wouldn't it be better to say that, rather than explain all the rules/mechanics OOC to the player before they enter (because that can mess with things, sometimes), that if IC entrance into the Domain constitutes OOC acceptance to abide by game effects that are outside of or contrary to the published game rules (ETA 1:12PM on 8/21) that remains in effect outside of the domain or inhibits the characters ability to leave the domain, then the player needs to be told ahead of time and offered the option to either agree to those rules or walk away?

It could be as simple as, "Hey, if your character comes in here, then what happens happesn - NO MATTER WHAT.  You okay with that?"

Players, conversely, should know that if you say "Yes", you should damn well mean it, no matter what.

[D]

Actually, skeevy as it may sound, you're not required to say anything unles it comes out through RP.  Now something like your Arwing hits the border of the territory and is transformed into a flying dragon, or the engine drops completely dead...That's pretty much required on entry because there's no damn way a PC is going to miss that.  But more subtle effects, like the game mechanics have been changed on you, unless there is some visible, or tangible feel to the change, there's really nothing required. 

And again that's not license to go all nimbly-pimbly and cheese-tastic.  You, as the GM, and as the player have a certain bond to "play fair".  But there should be no need to "sign" any spoken contracts.  You don't go into other people's houses, that you don't know or don't trust, and expect to be able to play by your rules anymore.

[LucasJamison]

Actually, skeevy as it may sound, you're not required to say anything unles it comes out through RP.  Now something like your Arwing hits the border of the territory and is transformed into a flying dragon, or the engine drops completely dead...That's pretty much required on entry because there's no damn way a PC is going to miss that.  But more subtle effects, like the game mechanics have been changed on you, unless there is some visible, or tangible feel to the change, there's really nothing required. 
And again that's not license to go all nimbly-pimbly and cheese-tastic.  You, as the GM, and as the player have a certain bond to "play fair".  But there should be no need to "sign" any spoken contracts.  You don't go into other people's houses, that you don't know or don't trust, and expect to be able to play by your rules anymore.

My mistake was leaving out the "effects that last beyond the borders of the Domain, or inhibit the character's ability to leave it" - because I'm pretty sure it's always been the rule that stuff happening in Territories/Domains can't last beyond their borders unless the other player consents to keep it going, that you can't just trap people forever in your basement without some sort of system mechanic or their consent, and that in any case such effects aren't to confer a mechanical benefit outside the domain without a system mechanic to back that up.

If that is not the case, then I may or not be somewhat pissy about a past instance involving just such a scenario.

[D]

Welll...the area's a little gray there on imprisonment.  There's nothing to keep one from keeping another locked up.  And you're right Dave, effects past a border are consensually governed, unless enforced by higher powers.  And as for escaping imprisonment, well there's a REAL easy way to get out of that, if just popping back into proper is denied.(Not outright saying it here, due to the fact that there is such a scenario unfolding at current)

[LucasJamison]

Yes, but the Stephen Dart method has certain prerequisites which many Avatars lack.  Lucas, for instance, would not be able to use that method, and the easy methods for Lucas may be downright impossible for many, if not most, Avatars, if only because they aren't aware of the possibilities.  Of course, Fleming had a good solution to the systemic imbalance which makes the Dart method difficult for many Avatars, but I'm not sure how widely distributed that solution is anymore, even among in Fleming, much less anyone else.

---

Actually, thinking about it, can't the Lord just... not let that happen, anyway?  So, you've got one up on me, if you're thinking of a method that I'm not, because the classic method that came to mind for me, while still effective in Territory-class areas, should be easily subverted by a competent Lord in his or her Domain.

[Dragontologist]

I was thinking the same - that a Lord in control of their domain should be able to stop anything if they want. 

[LucasJamison]

I was thinking the same - that a Lord in control of their domain should be able to stop anything if they want. 

Well, 's not entirely true.  The way I see this working is that Domain mechanics don't trump System mechanics.  However, the System mechanic for Domains is "the player of the Lord in question is effectively accorded System GM privileges over this particular area", and in a given situation the GM ruling trumps all, so there you have it.  I would think that where the borders of a Domain, and this the Lord's player's GM authority, are in question, then in absence of a higher authority to adjudicate it's better to err on the side of not overstepping.  So, if someone were to, while acting within the rules and limits laid down for them in the Domain, able to get to such a grey area or somehow simultaneously be in more than one place at the same time, then whatever parts of them got outside the Domain might be able to enact some effect that would then trump the Lord's power.

That, or anytime there's an overarching System-wide rule that is true of "all places" and not to be countermanded willy-nilly by anyone, then that would also trump the Domain GM, no?

So, there are some limits.  Also, a lot of times, Lord's don't know everything about what you can do, and they have a hard time blocking you from doing things they didn't realize were possible.

[D]

Precisely, see this is why we're in another slightly grey area.  Now I'm saying there are MANY ways out of imprisonment, not all of them incredibly pleasant.  But we do have higher powers that will intervene and intercede if in their mind there is an honest inequity.  The only requisite is the PC using their imaginations. 

And yeah multiversal, system-wide effects, things that are "woven in to the fabric itself", trump Domain GM any day of the week and twice on Sunday Febutober Eleventeenth.

If there a question about contests, players are welcome to consult with their local Rules GM for clarifications on what is and is not "According to Vinny".