Non Lethal Damage

[Mack Ravensline]

How does nonlethal damage work? Is it recovered in 10 minutes, or one hour? If you have taken sufficient non-lethal Damage to reduce your life total to zero, are you knocked unconscious, or are you able to talk, just not take any actions? What about things like passive defenses and such if you were attacked again? What types of damage can be made non- lethal? If you are unconscious can you be looted as per normal looting rules? What is your life total at if someone was to follow up the non-lethal attack with a lethal attack?

[D]

Non lethal damage is currently under discussion by members of the GM Staff, as it has existed only as a on site judgment call up to this point.  I'll post the official rules and interactions for Non-lethal sometime this weekend. 

For the purposes of your current online interactions:

-Nonlethal is intended to render its subjects unconscious.
-Nonlethal must come from a source that is truly, and logically, nonlethal.  Explosives, bullets, edged weapons, cutting style lasers, etc are not qualified to be used for non lethal purposes.  Think martial arts strikes, stun settings, and blunt object here gang.  "Inventive uses" of current weaponry types, flats of blades/butt stroking/pistol whipping, are not acceptable without some sort of skill specifically saying that it is.
-Nonlethal must reduce, after defensive pulls, from the current LIFE count to 0 LIFE in ONE strike, or it does 1/2 normal damage.  (ex: Avatar X, after defensive pulls, deals 300 nonlethal to Avatar Y.  Avatar Y has 301 LIFE.  Because the Nonlethal failed to incapacitate, it deals 150 normal damage to Avatar Y, leaving them with 151 LIFE remaining.)

-If LIFE is dropped to 0 by nonlethal damage,  the following occurs:

-The victim is rendered unconsciously incapacitated for the remainder of combat, aka they got knocked out.  This state will remain in force until the end of the normal four minute grace period.
-As they are in an incap state they are subject to all the penalties associated with that.  They receive NO defensive pulls.  Their passive defenses count for naught.
-They have a LIFE stat remaining equal to 1/2 half what they had before they got knocked out.  If they take further damage it is ALWAYS lethal, and is subtracted as normal.  If LIFE should drop to 0, they're dead as normal.  (ex.: Avatar Z has 100 LIFE before taking 101 nonlethal.  For the remainder of combat they have 50 LIFE to take before being subject to normal death rules.)
-Incapacitated avatars may be looted as per normal, privilege goes to the assailant.
-Nonlethally incapacitated avatars may be brought back around at any time, by forms of damage restoration.  Examples include "Heal Damage" from the Fantasy list, "Regeneration" from the Supers list (provided it was in effect beforehand), items that restore health, etc.
-An avatar in an incapacitated state, is sensory deprived, ie they do not see/hear/process anything of their surroundings.  As such they are not valid targets for mental manipulations.

That's about where we're at now.  More to Come on the official errata and interpretations list shortly.

[Sebastian Kirsch]

†  This is actually being broached by the rules staff as we speak, but for the time being it's like this:

How does nonlethal damage work?

It's a normal attack, the only difference being if the target is dropped to 0 LIFE or less they don;t suffer a hole-punch (is essence, you're being knocked the f--k out)

Is it recovered in 10 minutes, or one hour?

4 minutes (the avatar has basically been killed - 0 LIFE and all, but they regain consciousness after the 'pre-death' period is over)

If you have taken sufficient non-lethal Damage to reduce your life total to zero, are you knocked unconscious, or are you able to talk, just not take any actions?

see above (you are unconscious, treated as if you have just been killed until the 4 minutes are up)

What about things like passive defenses and such if you were attacked again?

Defense is calculated like any other attack

What types of damage can be made non- lethal?

This is a common sense decision, and is determined between the two players involved (since, at the moment, this is a combat-gm initiated practice and has no official rule backing it up default goes to it NOT being non-lethal if there is a dispute).  In genral, anything that would incapacitate someone in real life without killing them could be non-lethal - like punching them upside the head or impaling them in the thigh with a sharpened pole ::waves to Sigma::

If you are unconscious can you be looted as per normal looting rules?

Yes, normal looting rules apply

What is your life total at if someone was to follow up the non-lethal attack with a lethal attack?

Your life total is at 0, which means if someone wants to nail you with a coup-de-grace you will take the hole punch.  According to the rules, you should have already suffered the hole punch - but declaring non-lethal damage allows the attacker to take down someone without having to kill them outright

[Sebastian Kirsch]

... What Dering said

[D]

Yeah just for reference, this is something Vinny, Alf, and I are cooking up.  The usage was noticed on the list, and eyebrows got raised when it was realized that we needed something a little more black and white to cover this precedent. 

Not to say that all precedents are going to get this kind of treatment.  In general, if a current System GM or the Senior Combat GM doesn't ok it as an onsite call, and its not in the book, or contained in an Item, or spelled out in a Lord Skill/Power you've purchased, you prolly can't do it.

[TheonlyShamus]

Sorry as usuall i have to come from left field in all knowing i will get shot down don't feel bad im used to it but what about called shots being Avatar A has a DR of around 150 mark 4 which is +45 generic pistol which adds 35 to calc say and a AC pull 4. Thats 234 but before he pulled he announced im shooting Avatar Z in the leg(Being he wants to do non-lethal damage). Now most people would pass out from that type of pain but are you telling me that you will die right away from a shot to a non-vital spot in the leg in this system. I know its probably up to the GM at the time like D said and yes i still agree certain things like explosives laser weapons the incinerate parts radiation ect. can't be but a basic 9mm bullet to the leg shouldn't kill someone just piss em the 'ell off.

[D]

Actually the official rules on Non Lethal are getting an extensive debate specifically because of this point.  More to come.

[Sebastian Kirsch]

Sorry as usuall i have to come from left field in all knowing i will get shot down don't feel bad im used to it but what about called shots

†  Called shots are a possibility, though they'd have to be addressed.  Perhaps something along the lines of (1) a shot to an arm makes it impossible to use that limb for 10 minutues/combat or (2) a shot to the leg incurs a penalty to Flee - just some ideas

{snip}are you telling me that you will die right away from a shot to a non-vital spot in the leg in this system. I know its probably up to the GM at the time like D said and yes i still agree certain things like explosives laser weapons the incinerate parts radiation ect. can't be but a basic 9mm bullet to the leg shouldn't kill someone just piss em the 'ell off.

†  As D said, it's something that's being worked into the system.  Should an attacker want to incapacitate someone rather than kill them (ie. Sebastian doesn't want to kill a Hypno'd Sigma, just put him down until he snaps out of it), then it has to be daclared before the attack is made and then the rules come into play

[LucasJamison]

†  Called shots are a possibility, though they'd have to be addressed.  Perhaps something along the lines of (1) a shot to an arm makes it impossible to use that limb for 10 minutues/combat or (2) a shot to the leg incurs a penalty to Flee - just some ideas

Given that without some special Skill, Power, or Item that says otherwise, no one is a good enough shot to 100% accurately shoot the right person out of two folks having so much as a heated discussion, how's that square with called shots?

[Sebastian Kirsch]

Given that without some special Skill, Power, or Item that says otherwise, no one is a good enough shot to 100% accurately shoot the right person out of two folks having so much as a heated discussion, how's that square with called shots?

†  The standard rules for shooting into a group still apply

[wcshoe]

Given that without some special Skill, Power, or Item that says otherwise, no one is a good enough shot to 100% accurately shoot the right person out of two folks having so much as a heated discussion, how's that square with called shots?

CUTTHROAT is that good...

[D]

Technically, and game mechanically, unless there's a Lord Skill you haven't reported or some item I don't know about, no Cutthroat is not.   There's always the chance of failure to hit a target when firing into melee.  The percentage falls with every rank of Marksmanship, but it never disappears entirely.

[LucasJamison]

†  The standard rules for shooting into a group still apply

My personal bias is towards internal consistency, rather than "realism". I know other people lean otherwise, but if I can't even reliably shoot the right PERSON, how can I shoot the right LIMB? Or would called shots not be possible when firing into a melee?

[D]

This is another one of the points we're currently tied up on.  More to come.

[wcshoe]

Technically, and game mechanically, unless there's a Lord Skill you haven't reported or some item I don't know about, no Cutthroat is not. There's always the chance of failure to hit a target when firing into melee. The percentage falls with every rank of Marksmanship, but it never disappears entirely.

Ah, but you forget. Cutthroat has a shooting hat¹...






¹As Rob can tell you, it is an awesome hat!