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[Becca]

Something I've wanted for some time is to start building a demo team for Double Exposure events.

The perks would include a free badge, all meals from the staff suite, and free stuff from some of the companies you'd be demoing for.  Also, I'd be providing game materials to members of the team so that they can familiarize themselves with the games to be demoed at the events.  Once we're really together and going (as in, likely not in 2006), if someone wants to sell me their soul for any given event I may be able to provide crash space as well.

Requirements include a commitment of four hours each full day of the convention (16 for DEXCON, 12 for Dreamation and Southern Exposure, and 8 for Spring Gathering), enthusiasm, patience and the ability to teach games to others, and a good sense of responsibility.  I'm not hard to work for (I don't think), but I really need reliability.

Anyone who is interested should PM me, and speak with me at Dreamation where I'll have forms for the interested.  If doing the former, please include a list of what games you already know and would be able to demonstrate.  My timeframe for really having this going in some cohesive form is DEXCON 9, though I'll be playing with it a bit and trying people out at Dreamation and SG.

Becca

[`_100003005030 (Zero)]

Interesting idea, Becca.  Just so everybody's on the same page, let me ask some questions that occurred to me.

What kinds of games are we talking about?  BGs, RPGs, minis, CCGs, any or all of the above?

Would a person involved in the program be demoing more than one product? 

Is it only new products, or some established products as well?

How much input would a person have into what they're demoing?

It also occurs to me that the learning curve on different types of games is vastly different.  I can pick up a new boardgame and be able to teach it anywhere from 5 minutes [typical Out of the Box] to 20 minutes [typical Rio Grande] to a few days [typical hardcore wargame].  On the other hand, any RPG is apt to take several days at minimum to be able to demo effectively, as you need to not only have a feeling for the rules, but the gameworld.  Not an issue if the person is already familiar with the game, of course, but something to consider.

Liking this idea!

Linda

[Becca]

What kinds of games are we talking about?  BGs, RPGs, minis, CCGs, any or all of the above?

All of the above.  :-)

Would a person involved in the program be demoing more than one product? 

Yep.

Is it only new products, or some established products as well?

Both.

How much input would a person have into what they're demoing?

I'd rather people demo games they enjoy and are comfortable with, because both those elements will be communicated to people they talk to about it.  If I have a special need and no one is listed as already prepared to demo the game, I'll post asking for assistance.  If there are no nibbles, I'll ask a few people privately.  For the moment, I'm going to see what sort of interest there is, and what types of games can be covered by those interested.  I'll adjust as needed.  It's possible that I'll occasionally ask someone to learn a game that doesn't excite them so much.

It also occurs to me that the learning curve on different types of games is vastly different.  I can pick up a new boardgame and be able to teach it anywhere from 5 minutes [typical Out of the Box] to 20 minutes [typical Rio Grande] to a few days [typical hardcore wargame].  On the other hand, any RPG is apt to take several days at minimum to be able to demo effectively, as you need to not only have a feeling for the rules, but the gameworld.  Not an issue if the person is already familiar with the game, of course, but something to consider.

The learning curve is definitely different, depending on the type of game.  I can't foresee springing a game on someone, to demo.  There should always be ample time to learn something new.

Becca

[klz_fc]

This sounds great!

On the boardgamers end, I know June, Eileen, Carl, and Randy (just off the top of my head) all have been quite flexible as it is with showing a mix of games, and I think it's been working out well already.

I think it needs to be asked how this may affect (if at all) members of official demo groups already (the MIB, of which I am one being one of the more visbile groups). If the requirement is "be flexible to teach games from other companies and fill holes as needed," for example, I don't see any major conflicts.

Does this offer also mean we can only sell our soul to you for one event? Unless someone's a mutant, they only have one, so if someone sold their soul to you for, say, Dexcon 9, and wanted to help out for Dreamation, would other body parts have to suffice?

[Becca]

This sounds great!

On the boardgamers end, I know June, Eileen, Carl, and Randy (just off the top of my head) all have been quite flexible as it is with showing a mix of games, and I think it's been working out well already.

I think it needs to be asked how this may affect (if at all) members of official demo groups already (the MIB, of which I am one being one of the more visbile groups). If the requirement is "be flexible to teach games from other companies and fill holes as needed," for example, I don't see any major conflicts.

Does this offer also mean we can only sell our soul to you for one event? Unless someone's a mutant, they only have one, so if someone sold their soul to you for, say, Dexcon 9, and wanted to help out for Dreamation, would other body parts have to suffice?

Heh.

Perhaps it would be better phrased as 'renting one's soul'.  I'd hate the administrative nightmare of all that transfer paperwork, anyway.  And then there's storage issues... 

Our board game staff completely rocks, and I'd be sneaking in to pilf- borrow a few, but you guys tend to already be really busy during the events and I'd hate for you to have *no* time to just enjoy the conventions.  :-)  I certainly wouldn't turn any of you down, but I don't want to burn you out, either.  And, in a way, you guys already demo whenever someone new sits down at your table or just watches a game for a while.

While we do have a great MiB presence, I don't think we've ever specifically had a demo table set up for them.  So as part of the rotation, an MIB agent (for example) could spend that shift demoing SJG games.  Then, have a shift for a Cheapass Games Monkey (as another example) to demo their games.  For another shift, an MIB agent might want to do something a little different and demo something else they enjoy.  We could do an easel at the table with a schedule of what types of games can be demoed there at any given time.  That might take a while to iron out completely, but that's my ideal.  It wouldn't be required for only one company to be represented at a time, but some have large enough stables of games for it.

Becca

[Joshua Logan]

this could be fun
im also a Lab Rabbit for Looney Labs, in addition to my owning of way too many SJ games.

i have to ask one question though.  Im not trying to be cynical , i do happen to like the idea.  One thing i note about conventions is that all the games run are demo's... so i guess im asking, arent the people who run games at a convention already a demo staff? maybe im missing something, but thats how it seems. 
the only difference i can tell is that this is an unscheduled demo table, vs the scheduled games of the con, which is a cool idea and can see myself most likely taking part in so if that IS the "missing something", let me know
Joshua

[Stran Tannish]

The D&D games I run are usually too high level for beginners, but I'd be perfectly willing to set up simple demos for this sort of thing. Also, me and Tiny being official Wizkids Envoys, it's kind of our job to demo those games as well.

Provided I have time between Hospitality, Wizkids, D&D, and what ever else I may be doing during the cons, I wouldn't mind being a part of a demo team.

Walter

[Sinkuu]

Becca, I appreciate that you're willing to give the MIB a demo table.  I've personally never asked for one because of the simple fact I usually don't have enough staff (other MIB) to try and run demos CONSTANTLY at this one table.  the main problem is that our table needs can vary from game to game, from a single rectangular, to an RPG table, to multiple tables for some of my more unusual events.

now, while I'm sure the other MIB would disagree, and be willing to step up, I'm not going to ask for dedicated space unless I know for sure.

I think as of now, we (meaning myself and the other MIB) are used to running our events throughout the convention, attracting people as they walk by.  that doesn't mean, however, I wouldn't object to a Steve Jackson Games table out with the other gaming crews... but it's a decision 1) I'd want to run by the other MIB, to know they would be able to help support it, and 2) I'd want to discuss with my superiors at Steve Jackson Games, to find out what they'd expect of me and the other MIB, if anything.

[Becca]

this could be fun
im also a Lab Rabbit for Looney Labs, in addition to my owning of way too many SJ games.

i have to ask one question though.  Im not trying to be cynical , i do happen to like the idea.  One thing i note about conventions is that all the games run are demo's... so i guess im asking, arent the people who run games at a convention already a demo staff? maybe im missing something, but thats how it seems. 
the only difference i can tell is that this is an unscheduled demo table, vs the scheduled games of the con, which is a cool idea and can see myself most likely taking part in so if that IS the "missing something", let me know
Joshua

See, I didn't know you were a Rabbit.  Cool.  :-)  Another reason to put this together is that while we have so many great people who are happy to help out, I don't think there's really a list of who can do what.  I did actually just hear back from Karen Wright, who Rabbited for us at DEXCON this past July.  She and her daughter will be joining us Friday night through Sunday, so Looney's covered.

And yes, in a way everyone who runs a game is demoing it.  I wouldn't really call them demo staff though.  Board game staff is pretty close to demo staff of course, but on the whole a lot of games need some prior experience to really get something out of it (and to not frustrate other people signed up for it who don't want to crawl through an explanation).  Also, demoing is a much shorter time commitment for an attendee who wants to try something (or a couple somethings) out but not commit to a full block of time right then for whatever reason.  I also want to have something out in the middle of the common area, with the game company tables, where people just walking by can have their eye caught by something new.

Becca

[Becca]

The D&D games I run are usually too high level for beginners, but I'd be perfectly willing to set up simple demos for this sort of thing. Also, me and Tiny being official Wizkids Envoys, it's kind of our job to demo those games as well.

Provided I have time between Hospitality, Wizkids, D&D, and what ever else I may be doing during the cons, I wouldn't mind being a part of a demo team.

Walter

It would be great to have you demoing some Wizkids games.  :-)  And any D&D demos you could put together would be great.  I don't think we've ever actually had either demo'd at the conventions.  :-)

Becca, I appreciate that you're willing to give the MIB a demo table.  I've personally never asked for one because of the simple fact I usually don't have enough staff (other MIB) to try and run demos CONSTANTLY at this one table.  the main problem is that our table needs can vary from game to game, from a single rectangular, to an RPG table, to multiple tables for some of my more unusual events.

now, while I'm sure the other MIB would disagree, and be willing to step up, I'm not going to ask for dedicated space unless I know for sure.

I think as of now, we (meaning myself and the other MIB) are used to running our events throughout the convention, attracting people as they walk by.  that doesn't mean, however, I wouldn't object to a Steve Jackson Games table out with the other gaming crews... but it's a decision 1) I'd want to run by the other MIB, to know they would be able to help support it, and 2) I'd want to discuss with my superiors at Steve Jackson Games, to find out what they'd expect of me and the other MIB, if anything.

I've always wanted an SJG table out there, since we've always tried to support the company as much as possible.  Talk it over with others, and let me know.     It wouldn't have to be manned every minute, certainly.  I know you guys are pretty busy at the events.

Becca

[Dr. Steed]

This does have some precedent, in EG's experience. Back at DEX7, we had a rep from Vivendi Games (sub-group of Vivendi Universal Entertainment) - Greg Agius - and the role he played back then nicely fits into the model Becca's constructed here. He demo'ed "Chronicles of Riddick" and "Worlds of Warcraft" (VU's state-of-the-art games at the time) for us, and both were hits. He even volunteered to help us run some tourneys (Ground Control II, for example). It was a big thrill to work with a guy like Greg, and it played out very well for us.

I'd fully be in favor of seeing more stuff like that happen.

[Sinkuu]

I've always wanted an SJG table out there, since we've always tried to support the company as much as possible.  Talk it over with others, and let me know.     It wouldn't have to be manned every minute, certainly.  I know you guys are pretty busy at the events.

Becca

Becca, I think I'll hold off on one for Dreamation... but although I do not know if I'm going to be "Head MIB" for Dex 9 or not, I'll make sure it gets discussed.  I'm personally planning on "working" as little as possible for Dex 9, to "rest up" for Dex X.

[tantras]

This sounds great!

On the boardgamers end, I know June, Eileen, Carl, and Randy (just off the top of my head) all have been quite flexible as it is with showing a mix of games, and I think it's been working out well already.

*sniff* Someone remembers me! 8^)  Anyway, I'd be willing to help, pending the publication of the Board Game schedule (partly because I'd forgotten what I'd said I'd run).  Typically I pick up the events that live on the Island of Forgotten Games, leaving little free time. 8^)  However, I have been wanting to get the chance to teach/demo games outside of a tournament environment.

I guess to sum up, "Me too!"

     - Randy, the traveling Asian salesman... 8^)

[Bulova]

Demo Team: "good idea" Promote games and their playing. Make more game players in long run. Ugh.

I really think that for some games (particularly BG) the "how" of presenting a demo is trivial, but for other game-types (such as CCG, LARP or RPG) it becomes vastly more complex.

Is the target audience meant to be people who haven't played the game (or game-type) being demo-ed much previously?

It would be cool to schedule a demo to take place in the slot before that game (or game-type) is to have an tournament begin. (in some cases this is unwieldy, just due to the numbers. But then type-demos could be scheduled at various times throughout the Convention)

Don't have the demo actually run for the entire length of the slot. Allow the demo-ees to review the game materials in the remaining slot time to breed more familiarity (or contempt...j/k) and encourage them to move on and play in the upcoming related game-event.

During the demo, (and I'm going back to my old D&D and MtG playing days here) don't be as concerned with the intricate minutiae of, for example, character creation, or deck construction; rather focus on the idea that a character has to be generated (and don't Avatars already know about that?) or some cards have to be chosen and the idea of card-combinations and trying to determine what might work well together. Although for more structured games (such as BG), the rules are the rules, that oughtn't have to be the focus of the demo...stress that the "review period" after the demo ends is when those details can be picked up. Have the Demo-er remain for questions.

Encourage the players to enter games where intricate, advanced knowledge of the rules and system aren't as useful (such as a sealed-deck format CCG event, rather than constructed or draft deck format). Make sure that at least one of those types of "entry-level" events is the one in the upcoming slot (per above).

For the Demo, the idea should be to convey "this is what we do in this type of game. This is what's fun about doing it." THEN proceed to "here are the basic rules to get started. Try some of this out. Now, check the rules and equipment to get a handle on the details of those rules...and ask questions if you have any. Good. Now here's an event where you can use what you just learned. Have fun with it."

(For those of you who really think it's trivial for BG...try teaching bridge sometime )