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Author Topic: Feel Free to Rant...  (Read 7231 times)

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Salvius

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Feel Free to Rant...
« on: August 30, 2005, 09:24:21 AM »

You know, I'm sorry that I didn't have the forum set up last year, when we were in the throes of election year. Obviously, had I or anyone else started ranting about one candidate or the other, or Republican views vs. Democratic views, it would have quickly overtaken the Yahoo Group lists - because well, that's the nature of the beast. We as humans are very emotional about our beliefs.

So to feed the dark side of everyone who is in the Double Exposure community, I have set up this board. Feel free to rant, rave and flame on any subject you'd like. All I ask is that you treat everyone here with respect, and understand that different viewpoints are what make us human.

>>>Vinny
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GM John

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Re: Feel Free to Rant...
« Reply #1 on: September 03, 2005, 03:11:21 AM »

Um...  Are you absolutely sure the forum wouldn't be better off without political discussions?  These are extremely divisive times politically, and we're trying to be a gaming community, and politics just needn't be a part of that.  It's too easy these days to lose people because of political views even when the group has nothing to do with.

And honestly, in many cases I would rather not know.  What other people believe can depress the hell out of me.  If it were as simple as not reading this part of the board I'd be keeping silent right now, but when something really controversial gets said here, it will likely be repeated elsewhere that so and so said such and such.  And attitudes created here will bleed over elsewhere.

So given that it's so off-topic and potentially destructive, why encourage it when-- as I always point out-- there are infinite other places where political discussion is specifically welcome?

If we were to encourage off-topics, I would rather people post stock tips.  And you know how dangerous THAT would be.  :)
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Salvius

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Re: Feel Free to Rant...
« Reply #2 on: September 03, 2005, 07:29:27 AM »

Um...  Are you absolutely sure the forum wouldn't be better off without political discussions?  These are extremely divisive times politically, and we're trying to be a gaming community, and politics just needn't be a part of that.  It's too easy these days to lose people because of political views even when the group has nothing to do with.

And honestly, in many cases I would rather not know.  What other people believe can depress the hell out of me.  If it were as simple as not reading this part of the board I'd be keeping silent right now, but when something really controversial gets said here, it will likely be repeated elsewhere that so and so said such and such.  And attitudes created here will bleed over elsewhere.

So given that it's so off-topic and potentially destructive, why encourage it when-- as I always point out-- there are infinite other places where political discussion is specifically welcome?

If we were to encourage off-topics, I would rather people post stock tips.  And you know how dangerous THAT would be.  :)

John,

Part of being a community is having latent feelings about certain things. Having a place to air them is better than them popping up somewhere else. If someone posts something inflammatory, I'm going to move it here. And if something discussed here ends up somewhere else, I'm going to move it back here. So please feel free to ignore this board :-)

>>>Vinny
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GM John

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Re: Feel Free to Rant...
« Reply #3 on: September 03, 2005, 11:07:55 AM »

For the reasons you give, this is good to have for rants that are at least tangentially related to DE, gaming, or conventions. 

I'm really only talking about off-topic (and therefore IMHO unnecessary), especially political, for which I think it can do way more harm than good.  I've seen it happen in many forums, and when it's a community of people who actually meet in person regularly, political tensions that never would have come up at conventions are suddenly an issue there.

As far as you moving things back here, when I said things could be repeated elsewhere I meant live speech at conventions, "can you believe what he wrote" things that I can't avoid being told. 

I will in fact ignore this board, I just hope people respect that anything said here should stay here.
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Alf Cunha

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Re: Feel Free to Rant...
« Reply #4 on: September 03, 2005, 12:26:36 PM »


**  Personally, I think one of the problems with the gaming community as we, as a general rule, take things too personally.  We are a bunch of people with SO many diverse points of view and attitudes, with a hobby that brings us into such divergent ways of thinking, it's almost inconceivable to me that we would disagree so vehemently with a point of view that we would stop talking to one another or take offense. 

     Most of us grew up being the outcasts and set apart from the social 'norm' because we were different.  We play games where we pretent to be people and creatures with perspectives that we, in reality, can't even begin to understand.  Nonetheless, many of us play the games we play because thewy do give us a different view - let us be someone we're not, and see things through different eyes.  The sad part is that what we strive to do in a game we can't do in reality.

     We all see things differently, we all grew up in different circumstances and in different subcultures.  We are NOT going to agree on things - but rather than become that same social clique that once pushed us away when we wer young, let's actually understand that we ARE different and if we weren't the world would be pretty uninteresting.

     I'm a Republican - I have no problem with Democrats, I'm a Pagan - I have no problem with Christians, I'm a heterosexual - I have no problem with homosexuals, I'm a meat-eater - I have no problem with vegetarians.  I'm generally rambling but the point is this:  if, as an individual, you are going to stop talking to someone because they don't share the same views as you .... you need to get your head out of your @$$.


Alf
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Alf Cunha
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GM John

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Re: Feel Free to Rant...
« Reply #5 on: September 03, 2005, 02:21:14 PM »

It used to be inconceivable to me too.  But I've seen it happen, and while I can accept *different* opinions, hearing incredibly uninformed ones depresses me.  Sorry, ignorance has that effect on me.  I'd rather not be exposed to them.

And in times past, everything simply wasn't as divisive as it is today.  Even on the floor of Congress where for two hundred years they could disagree politely, the Vice President of the US publicly tells Senators to go fuck themselves.  Sure gamers are better than professional elected politicians, but still...

And Alf, one of the differences of opinion we can have is that I prefer not to hear others' political opinions in my gaming community, because I think that's better for me. I also think it's better on the whole for a group where politics is otherwise not involved, so I thought it was worth voicing that opinion.  I hope that's an acceptable difference in your book?

But the kind of opinion that's not acceptable?  If it became known to me that someone is vehemently opposed to (not politely, and not simply questioning why it's necessary) my right to marry the man I've been living with for 16 years, then no, I will not be speaking to that person.  Same goes if he holds up "Your son is burning in hell" signs at a gay kid's funeral.  Also if he were instrumental in you losing your teaching job due to your pagan beliefs. 

I believe I have a right not to associate with people like that.  I don't ask people to divulge that information, but if they speak it out loud or put it in writing, I will not support such unreasoning hatred by pretending it's acceptable.

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Frigemall

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Re: Feel Free to Rant...
« Reply #6 on: September 04, 2005, 01:18:52 AM »

   Personnally, as a very devout Christian, and a Republican, there have been several times that people at cons people have openly bashed things I believe. I have two choices, 1) I can become offended, lash back at them and get ignorant, which does me or my side little to no good. or 2) Quietly excuse myself from the conversation and allow for opposing views. If the person will not stop pushing something unsolicited I politely ask them to move on to a new subject. If I am directly asked my opinion, however then the person who asked will get my opinion in such a way where I will try not to change them, simply inform of why I believe as I do.
   I do believe that John may be right in that this board could get a bit out of hand and cause some rifts. Political conversations as well as inflamatory racial, or religious discussions could spiral out of hand in a way that can not easily be resolved later. I do not think this board should be stopped, but I do think people that post here should be VERY careful what they write, as it will be very hard to take back or appoligize for once it is out there for all to see.
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GM John

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Re: Feel Free to Rant...
« Reply #7 on: September 04, 2005, 01:45:36 AM »

Not much point in a flame and rant board where you have to be careful, is there?  :)

Again, my only preference is that the flames and rants are at least on-topic.  If others see some wisdom in that, great.
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Linda Baldwin

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Re: Feel Free to Rant...
« Reply #8 on: September 05, 2005, 03:31:21 PM »

Well, I have to admit that the presence of this particular topic/board concerned me too.  I decided it would be in my best interest to just ignore it, and would have continued to do so, except  I saw John had posted, and, surmising his feelings would be similar enough to mine in that way, braved the waters.

I found out just enough to make me reconsider remarks I might make in certain company, but honestly, I tend to try to avoid politics and religion as topics when I'm with gaming friends, as it just makes maintaining the relationships easier.  (I still recall a conversation on one of the lists that got quite heated because of some people's use of a word they thought innocuous and others found quite offensive.  And no, let's not rehash that, it was bad enough the first time.)  Whether having a place to rant & rave is a good thing or not ... Well, I guess we'll see.  But please, let whatever happens on this board STAY on this board.

I'll go back to ignoring this list, I think, for my own sanity.  There are some things I just don't need to know.

Linda, Rambling Needlessly
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GM John

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Re: Feel Free to Rant...
« Reply #9 on: September 05, 2005, 05:53:33 PM »

Oops, Linda is right.  I said I had only one preference about this board and she went and quoted another one that I made earlier: that whatever is said here is not repeated elsewhere for the sake of those of us actively avoiding such discussions.  That goes for people reading it, not just those that wrote it.

That one's only polite, sort of like spoilers.  :)   
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Alf Cunha

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Re: Feel Free to Rant...
« Reply #10 on: September 07, 2005, 06:20:12 PM »

**  Sorry for the delay, with school starting up I've been a tad busy :)


Quote
while I can accept *different* opinions, hearing incredibly uninformed ones depresses me.  Sorry, ignorance has that effect on me.  I'd rather not be exposed to them.


**  If the problem is an uninformed opinion, then shouldn't the people who ARE informed call them on it and let them in on the facts?  Better to correct someone's incorrect opinion than to let them spread misinformation.


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Even on the floor of Congress where for two hundred years they could disagree politely, the Vice President of the US publicly tells Senators to go fuck themselves.


**  Our elected officials are no angels ... in the mid-1800s a state Representative beat a US Senator into unconsciousness with a cane for personally criticizing a fellow Southerner.  Not exactly a polite disagreement.


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I also think it's better on the whole for a group where politics is otherwise not involved, so I thought it was worth voicing that opinion.  I hope that's an acceptable difference in your book?


**  Absolutely acceptable (is there a reason it wouldn't be?)


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But the kind of opinion that's not acceptable?  If it became known to me that someone is vehemently opposed to (not politely, and not simply questioning why it's necessary) my right to marry the man I've been living with for 16 years, then no, I will not be speaking to that person.  Same goes if he holds up "Your son is burning in hell" signs at a gay kid's funeral.  Also if he were instrumental in you losing your teaching job due to your pagan beliefs. 



**  The difference comes between words and actions.  A person is free to say whatever they wish, so long as it's not putting someone else in danger or infringing on their rights.  Someone wants to bad-mouth me because of what I believe? That's fine, though I prefer they say it to my face so I can rebutt their ignorance.  I've lost 2 jobs because of my beliefs, and that's twice where disagreement has left the realm of debate and entered the arena of discrimination.  There's a line there, and although people disagree where that line is drawn, we should at least strive to be respectful of that line.  Will it happen? Likely not, but we shouldn't stifle a reasonable opinion just because someone might take offense to it.


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Not much point in a flame and rant board where you have to be careful, is there? 



Quote
I'll go back to ignoring this list, I think, for my own sanity.  There are some things I just don't need to know.


**   This is the best policy, if you feel that what might be said on a rant board will offend you or make your relationship with other people difficult it's best to avoid it altogether.  Some of us feel comfortable spouting what we believe, while others really don't want to hear what may be taken badly (and sometimes is actually meant badly).  So to those who will avoid this thread in the future for those reasons, enjoy the rest of the forums and I'll see you at the con ... for the rest ... (to quote the most recent Marvel movie) flame on!


Alf
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Alf Cunha
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GM John

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Re: Feel Free to Rant...
« Reply #11 on: September 07, 2005, 07:55:10 PM »

(Looks like this is my 100th post the the DE forums!)

**  If the problem is an uninformed opinion, then shouldn't the people who ARE informed call them on it and let them in on the facts?  Better to correct someone's incorrect opinion than to let them spread misinformation.

Have you tried that very often?  People can be VERY attached to their uniformed opinions.  I've found when people are uninformed yet already have a strong opinion, I'm not going to make any headway with facts.   My rational decision was to stop trying to inform such people.  Open minds however are always welcome.

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**   This is the best policy, if you feel that what might be said on a rant board will offend you or make your relationship with other people difficult it's best to avoid it altogether. 

Yes, that's what I thought.  Seems like you changed your tune though, unless it either makes a difference when it's Linda saying it, or I totally misunderstood "you need to get your head out of your @$$" in the first place. :)
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Alf Cunha

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Re: Feel Free to Rant...
« Reply #12 on: September 09, 2005, 04:48:00 PM »

Quote
Have you tried that very often?  People can be VERY attached to their uniformed opinions.  I've found when people are uninformed yet already have a strong opinion, I'm not going to make any headway with facts.   My rational decision was to stop trying to inform such people.  Open minds however are always welcome.


**  As a teacher, I consider it my duty :)  I do tend to throw my 2 cents in when I disagree with someone else, although it does depend on the circumstances.  Yeah, usually people are so in love with their own opinions that they'll shut their own ears to anything you try to tell them that doesn't agree with their views.


Quote
Yes, that's what I thought.  Seems like you changed your tune though, unless it either makes a difference when it's Linda saying it, or I totally misunderstood "you need to get your head out of your @$$" in the first place.



**  Changed my tune? (checks back logs) No, I'm still of the opinion that we should all be able to say what we want, even if it hurts someone else's feelings (ideally, a person should be tactful enough so they can soften the blow, but that doesn't always happen ... especially as many of us can be rather thin-skinned).  BUT, if you don't want to put yourself in a position where you risk being offended the best thing to do is not be there in the first place - which I see as a perfectly acceptable option (if you don't want to get wet, don't stand out in the rain  :P)

     As for the "head up your @$$" coment, that wasn't directed at anyone - 'twas a general comment toward people who will sever a relationship with someone on the basis that they disagree on some point of personal belief.  I still consider such people to have their heads up their @$$es  :-X


Alf
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Fox McCloud

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Re: Feel Free to Rant...
« Reply #13 on: January 13, 2006, 10:54:20 PM »

im alltittle late in the game but i think that the reason why ppl are so dead set on something is becouse they cant understand and dont realize that sometimes they might just be wrong.  see i dont understand alot of things the reason ppl seek out religon why ppl deside do hate someone becouse of race i just dont understand.  sorry im kindof rambling but i think that if the person is intelgint or open (the two usuly go hand in hand) they should be aloud to debait the subject but insted of hateing eachother in the end we should try to think about what we lernd about it.  i think of myself as an observer i like to watch as things happen and i think ive gotten a newfound perspective.  ive been ignorant before.  ive hated people for things i didnt understand.  i sat back and thoght and i changed my ideas.  now that last part is what most ppl can not do they can not admit to thir wrong ness and they will go on beleving what they think. i also beleve in pride i beleave that people should be proud of certan things.  religon, nationality politacal vews.  even if those ideas or belefs are unpopular.  I am from  german heritage and some ignorant people make an imediate assumtion that i must be a nazi.  I was soon to find out that thare was no way to defend yourself agansed that.  labeling its what the stupid ppl do to keep others down but thats another rant entiresly.  you cant argue with stupid ppl thares just nothing you can do about them but tell them and back off and hope for thir sake it sinks in eventually but with us in the gaming community im assuming that we are all intelligint enogh to argue about things and try to lern somthing about others.......


REMEMBER FOLKS WERE ALL GAMERS HERE BE PROUD OF THAT!!!!!!

and i apologise for the spelling im allittle cixelsiD

-Fox
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Frigemall

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Re: Feel Free to Rant...
« Reply #14 on: January 14, 2006, 02:49:15 AM »

     Hate for people usually comes about because most people want to have someone or some group of people to blame for the problems in their life. Usually it goes beyond ignorance. Ignorance causes people to act in such a way that offends. Hatred takes effort. If you blame another individual or group of individuals for a problem in your life it releaves you of responsibility. You do not have to look at your own faults or lack of knowledge, just simply blame another person or group. Certainly some people do some reprehensible things. Hating the action is one thing, avoiding contact with an individual doing reprehensible actions is natural, even confronting that person and trying to convince them in some way to not do those actions to you and those you care about, or in your presence is also normal. When you hate someone though, you are the one responsible at least in part, because you then place blame on that person or group of people, saying that that person has the power to destroy you. Lack of confidence in one's self usually causes people to search for an excuse for their problems instead of a solution. A wise man looks for what he or she can do to change themselves or their condition, while a fool looks to find someone to blame and a way to get even.
    There is nothing wrong with strongly held beliefs. It is only by examining what is important to you and why, that you understand your self and learn how to change the condition you are in. Having a code of ethics is what separates the shallow from the deep. If you follow a religion, code, or way of life simply because someone else wants you to, or does not want you to, it is for the wrong reason. Know why you believe what you do or you will not be happy with yourself. I am a Christian and a Conservative because of a reasoned study of my beliefs and not just because my parents were also these things. By examining these things and understanding them, it has drawn me closer to my parents and allowed me to know why they did what they did. Knowing why they did these things makes me love them more and makes it easier to commit to them. I have many friends who are not of the same beliefs I am. I am comfortable with them because I am secure in who I am and can look at what drives them objectively. It is not my place to judge them. They have to decide for themselves what is right. If a person continually offends me by disrespecting me, then I most likely will avoid them and or convince them to leave me be. If you hate me for my beliefs or who I am am, perhaps you should ask yourself why, you may find out some things about yourself.
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