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Author Topic: Cost of Illegal aliens  (Read 5775 times)

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Mack Ravensline

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Cost of Illegal aliens
« on: October 01, 2008, 07:58:18 AM »

Got this e-mail and thought I would post it.
1. $11 Billion to $22 billion is spent on welfare to illegal aliens each year. http://tinyurl.com/zob77

2. $2.2 Billion dollars a year is spent on food assistance programs such as food stamps, WIC, and free school lunches for illegal aliens. http://www.cis.org/articles/2004/fiscalexec.html
3. $2.5 Billion dollars a year is spent on Medicaid for illegal aliens.
http://www.cis.org/articles/2004/fiscalexec.html

4. $12 Billion dollars a year is spent on primary and secondary school education for children here illegally and they cannot speak a word of English! http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt.0.html

5. $17 Billion dollars a year is spent for education for the American-born children of illegal aliens, known as anchor babies.
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt.01.html

6. $3 Million Dollars a DAY is spent to incarcerate illegal aliens.
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt.01.html

7. 30% percent of all Federal Prison inmates are illegal aliens.
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt.01.html

8. $90 Billion Dollars a year is spent on illegal aliens for Welfare & social services by the American taxpayers.
http://premium.cnn.com/TRANSCIPTS/0610/29/ldt.01.html

9. $200 Billion Dollars a year in suppressed American wages are
caused by the illegal aliens.
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt.01.html

10. The illegal aliens in the United States have a crime rate that's two and a half times that of white non-illegal aliens. In particular, their children, are going to make a huge additional crime problem in the US
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0606/12/ldt.01.html

11. During the year of 2005 there were 4 to 10 MILLION illegal aliens that crossed our Southern Border also, as many as 19,500 illegal aliens from Terrorist Countries. Millions of pounds of drugs, cocaine, meth, heroine and marijuana, crossed into the U. S from the Southern border. Homeland Security Report: http://tinyurl.com/t9sht

12. The National Policy Institute, "estimated that the total cost of mass deportation would be between $206 and $230 billion or an average cost of between $41 and $46 billion annually over a five year period." http://www.nationalpolicyinstitute.org/pdf/deportation.pdf

13. In 2006 illegal aliens sent home $45 BILLION in remittances back to their countries of origin.http://www.rense.com/general75/niht.htm

14. "The Dark Side of Illegal Immigration: Nearly One Million Sex Crimes Committed by Illegal Immigrants In The United States ".
http://www.drdsk.com/articleshtml
The total cost is a whooping .    $ 338.3 BILLION DOLLARS A YEAR or Some $16,915/alien.
Kick them out and give a $10,000/year incentive to USA citizen to do their jobs and we would save $138.3 Billion per year.
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LucasJamison

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Re: Cost of Illegal aliens
« Reply #1 on: October 02, 2008, 10:45:53 PM »

I'm not sure where to begin addressing this. First, the cite for point 13 refers to the original version of this note: http://www.rense.com/general75/niht.htm. Reproduced here:

Quote
How Much Further
Into This Nightmare?
By Frosty Wooldridge
1-22-7


When Do We Say "Uncle," and Get A Life?
 
Are we hypnotized, or mesmerized? Can an entire civilization possess a death wish? Can Americans, by our own apathy, encourage their own destruction? Can American citizens be that stupid? Are our leaders that corrupt?  Can Americans be that disinterested as the core of their values rots like fish in three-day-old garbage?
 
Look around fellow Americans. You've got Muslims swearing-in on the Koran in the United States Congress. That book stands diametrically opposed to the U.S. Constitution. Those who follow the Koran expect to kill Jewish and Christian nations.  The Koran states it emphatically.
 
Islamists expect to wipe Christians off the face of the earth! It's the prime directive of those who follow the Koran to "convert or kill all non-believers." And, yet the people of Minnesota elected a man who follows a religion bent on destroying Western humanity.
 
Are You Ready Sharia Law Governing the U.S.A.?
 
If all 535 candidates for Congress were Muslims, and became U.S. senators and House members-- they would dismantle our Constitution in a heartbeat and install Sharia Law.  How stupid are we as a nation? How nave? How bankrupt in our apathy toward Islam and its prime directive?
 
Additionally, how stupid our apathy toward massive legal and illegal immigration! How far will we allow our nation into this nightmare?
 
"To Serve Man"
 
Forty years ago, a movie narrated by Rod Serling, "To Serve Man" starred Lloyd Bochner and Susan Cummings. It depicted an alien space craft landing on earth. The head alien gave the people of earth a book. With a special beam, all diseases vanished. Crops grew in abundance. Humans grew fat and happy. Soon, the aliens gave humans free trips back to their home planet. The aliens gave humans a choice to stay on the new planet.  Flights left daily. Amazingly, no one returned to earth -- except more space ships for transport.
 
Where did they go, and what did they do?
 
Near the end of the movie, Susan Cummings ran up to Bochner with a horrifying look on her face. "What's the problem?" Bochner asked. "This book," she said, "To Serve Man, well, our best experts have deciphered it." "What did they learn?" Bochner asked. Susan Cummings burst into tears, "It's a cookbook!"
 
There are other provocative movies. Have you seen the current movie, "Children of Men?" Brace yourself and do that then sit somewhere in silence, and think about the consequences.
 
Believe It, or Not We Are Responsible For the Nightmare
 
We Can Choose To Stop It If not now, When?
 
How far do Americans want to continue into this horror movie with a cast of millions of consequences including illegal aliens, violent Muslims landing in our country daily and an annual $700 billion trade deficit? Do you like watching diseases like TB, hepatitis and leprosy imported? Do you find it exciting to watch MS-13 gangs expanding all over our country? What about hospitals bankrupting, prisons exploding and education degraded to the Tower of Babel?  Is it fun to watch your neighbors lose their jobs to outsourcing, offshoring and insourcing?
 
On top of that, our own Congress may insanely pass SB 2611, by Kennedy and McCain, which will legalize up to 30 million illegals and jump legal immigration one hundred percent annually to two million per year. This legislation increases by tens of thousands work visas that take jobs from Americans -- and continues chain migration and anchor babies without pause.
 
And still, the American public stands like a bunch of sheep in a pasture waiting to be slaughtered. In 2007, Americans remain as stupid and nave as the humans in "To Serve Man."  Our nation adds 100 million people in 33 years with 70 million of them poorly-educated immigrants from Third World countries. Yet, the American public stands like a deer in the headlights.  Road-kill!
 
"The Master Plan" by Bush and Our Congress
 
President Bush writes a book titled: "THE MASTER PLAN: They Do the Jobs Americans Won't Do." After you decipher his book, here's what it's costing you:
 
1. $11 billion to $22 billion spent on welfare to illegal aliens each year.
 
2. $2.2 billion dollars a year spent on food assistance programs such as food stamps, WIC, and free school lunches for illegal aliens.
 
3. $2.5 billion dollars a year spent on Medicaid for illegal aliens.
 
4. $12 billion dollars a year spent on primary and secondary school education for children here illegally.
 
5. $17 billion dollars a year spent for education for the American-born children of illegal aliens, known as anchor babies.
 
6. $3 million dollars a day spent to incarcerate illegal aliens.
 
7. 29 percent of all Federal Prison inmates are illegal aliens.
 
8. $90 billion dollars a year spent on illegal aliens for welfare & social services by the American taxpayers.
 
9. $200 billion Dollars a year in lost-suppressed American wages caused by the illegal aliens.
 
10. Illegal aliens in the United States have a crime rate that's two and a half times that of citizen-taxpayer Americans. Their children make a huge additional crime problem in the United States.
 
11. During the year of 2005, there were 4 to 10 million illegal aliens that crossed our Southern Border. In addition, as many as 19,500 illegal aliens arrived from terrorist countries. Millions of pounds of drugs, cocaine, meth, heroine and marijuana, crossed into the U. S. from the Southern border.
 
12. In 2006 illegal aliens sent home $45 billion in remittances back to their countries of origin. Obfuscation may have hidden $35 Billion more.
 
13. "The Dark Side of Illegal Immigration: Nearly One Million Sex Crimes Committed by Illegal Immigrants in the United States."
 
14. Every day (average), 12 Americans are murdered by an illegal alien. Another 13 Americans are killed by uninsured drunk illegal aliens, and Eight American Children are victims of a sex crime committed by an illegal alien each day! Local cops, acting in error, sometimes "forget" to annotate nationality on reports. The numbers may be worse.
 
15. Today, criminal aliens account for over 29 percent of prisoners in Federal Bureau of Prisons facilities and a higher share of all federal prison inmates. These prisoners represent the fastest growing segment of the federal prison population.
 
Incarceration of criminal aliens cost an estimated $624 million to state prisons (1999) and $891 million to federal prisons (2002), according to the most recent available figure from the U.S. DOJ Bureau of Justice Statistics.
 
16. "Illegal Aliens and American Medicine," "Many illegal aliens harbor fatal diseases that American Medicine fought and vanquished long ago, such as drug-resistant tuberculosis, malaria, leprosy, plague, polio, dengue and Chagas disease." The Journal of American Physicians and Surgeons.
 
17. In 2002, HIV/AIDS was the third leading cause of death among Hispanic men aged 35 to 44 and the fourth leading cause of death among Hispanic women in the same age group. Most Hispanic men were exposed to HIV through sexual contact with other men. Source (U.S. CDC):
 
18. If enacted, the Comprehensive Immigration Reform Act (CIRA, S. 2611) would be the most dramatic change in immigration law in 80 years, granting Amnesty to 30 million illegal immigrants, and allowing an estimated 100-203 million persons to legally immigrate to the U.S. over the next 20-40 years a number equal to fully two-thirds of the current population of the United States.
 
19. U.S. Sen. Jeff Sessions (R-AL) today unveiled an impact analysis that shows the Senate immigration bill should it become law would permit up to 217.1 million new legal immigrants into the United States over the next 20 years, a number equal to more than 70 percent of the total current population.
 
20. The number of illegal immigrants in the United States is at least 20 million, and may be as many as 30 million people, more than triple the official nine million people estimated by the Census Bureau. 03 Jan 2005.
 
21. Cases of Leprosy on the Rise In The U.S. , The New York Times. "While there were some 900 recorded cases in the United States 40 years ago, today more than 7,000 people have leprosy." Leprosy is an airborne virus; it can also be spread by touching and coughing.
 
Are you sickened by this movie? This nation needs a 10 year moratorium on all immigration. We need to stop this invasion of our nation and destruction of our future.
 
Dear reader, I don't know what it's going to take for you to mobilize yourself, your spouse, your kids, your community, your state, your local-county-state-national politicians -- and your country- but it's well past time to push the "eject-button" to get out of this nightmare. It matters little what your race, creed or color-as an American citizen, you and your children will become victims of this "Human Katrina" flooding into our country.  This column exposes the ingredients for our destruction; it's a cookbook of our boiling our culture, language and civilization to death.
 
Sources for all 21 points:
 
1. http://www.fairus.org/site/PageServer?pagename=iic_immigrationissuecenters7fd8
2. http://www.cis.org/articles/2004/fiscalexec.html
3. http://www.cis.org/articles/2004/fiscalexec.html
4. http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt.01.html
5. http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt.01.html
6. http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt.01.html
7. http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt.01.html
8. http://premium.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0610/29/ldt.01.html
9. http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt.01.html
10. http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0606/12/ldt.01.html
11. http://www.house.gov/mccaul/pdf/Investigaions-Border-Report.pdf
12. http://www.contracostatimes.com/mld/cctimes/news/nation/15795654.htm?source=rss&channel=cctimes_nation
13.  http://www.drdsk.com/articles.html
14. http://www.house.gov/apps/list/hearing/ia05_king/col_20060505_bite.html
14. http://www.fairus.org/site/PageServer?pagename=iic_immigrationissuecenters0b9c
15.   http://www.jpands.org/jpands1001.htm
16. http://www.cdc.gov/hiv/resources/factsheets/hispanic.htm
17.   http://www.heritage.org/Research/Immigration/wm1076.cfm
18.  http://sessions.senate.gov/pressapp/record.cfm?id=255553&&
19.   http://www.bearstearns.com/bscportal/pdfs/underground.pdf
20. http://www.stevequayle.com/News.alert/03_Disease/030226.leprosy.in.US.html
21. http://jscms.jrn.columbia.edu/cns/2005-03-15/whitford-americanleprosy
 
http://www.libertypost.org/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=78621 


Why the author of this email felt the need to edit and rework the citations, I'm not sure.

I'll leave this message at that. Do I really need to go point by point?
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Mack Ravensline

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Re: Cost of Illegal aliens
« Reply #2 on: October 03, 2008, 12:08:40 PM »

I will admit, I put it up without factchecking everything 100% in it. I put it up to spark discussion. If the problem with illegals is even half this bad (and I suspect it is more than half) then something needs to be done, and now. I suspect he reworked it some because he thought the points cited were more telling than where the author assigned blame, and the commentary throughout the piece. I many times do not agree with the conclusions a writer draws from the facts cited, but still think a piece is valuable for the facts contained. The reader can draw their own conclusions and act accordingly, even if it is to reorganize the valuable parts they see and widely circulate it in that form.
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LucasJamison

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Re: Cost of Illegal aliens
« Reply #3 on: October 03, 2008, 12:51:43 PM »

I get that the e-mail you got jibes with your pre-existing biases, so your inclined to accept it so long as nothing in it strikes you as totally outlandish. We all do that, 's cool. But did you read the whole original context of the points, which I provided? THAT fellow is a fucking whackaloon of the first order, and I think that really necessitates double-checking anything he says, however much you want it to be true.

The forwarder of the e-mail (or its author) is either mendacious or stupid, maybe both, and aside from editting the original points and in some cases altering the citations from the post I provided, is pretty much crap at arithmetic:

Quote
The total cost is a whooping $ 338.3 BILLION DOLLARS A YEAR or Some $16,915/alien.
Kick them out and give a $10,000/year incentive to USA citizen to do their jobs and we would save $138.3 Billion per year.


1) Whopping
2) Not sure where the $338.3 billion comes from - certainly not adding the numbers cited higher up on the list, unless you get pretty creative about it.
3) The per-immigrant figure suggested equates to approximately 20 million illegal immigrants, which is not noted elsewhere in the list of points, but does fall within the standard range of claims by anti-immigrant groups.
4) Even assuming that after the massively expensive deportation took place, only 130,000,000 people remained employed, at $10,000 a head you're talking 1.3 TRILLION dollars. At 1,000 a pop, 130 BILLION, which would indicate a slightly greater cost savings.
5) Wev, the numbers just don't work, or even come close. They're bullshit numbers.

As for the points, in either the e-mail or the original listing.... I'll tackle them later, but given the negligible credibility and consistency so far, I'm not expecting to find better. Where do they get all their cost estimates? It looks like they all come from FAIR (which, I mean, come ON!), but lemme see what comes up.
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Mack Ravensline

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Re: Cost of Illegal aliens
« Reply #4 on: October 03, 2008, 01:48:52 PM »

I get that the e-mail you got jibes with your pre-existing biases, so your inclined to accept it so long as nothing in it strikes you as totally outlandish. We all do that, 's cool. But did you read the whole original context of the points, which I provided? THAT fellow is a fucking whackaloon of the first order, and I think that really necessitates double-checking anything he says, however much you want it to be true.
Yeah he is rather whacked out, which is probably why most of it is not included.

The per-immigrant figure suggested equates to approximately 20 million illegal immigrants, which is not noted elsewhere in the list of points, but does fall within the standard range of claims by anti-immigrant groups.



As for the points, in either the e-mail or the original listing.... I'll tackle them later, but given the negligible credibility and consistency so far, I'm not expecting to find better. Where do they get all their cost estimates? It looks like they all come from FAIR (which, I mean, come ON!), but lemme see what comes up.
Just a point on #3 to clarify, the groups primarily are not Anti-immigrant groups, they are anti-illegal immigrant groups. It is a big distinction.
As far as deportation is concerned, I believe that a bunch of detention centers should be built. These would be equiped with Medical Clinics and other services. I believe that those who are detained for any reason or those who go for medical treatment or to sign up for any government services should be instead taken to these detention centers and given proper medical care first, then sent home. It is humane and will cost far less than the future costs generated by illegals on the public dole. This will only work of course if we have ways of securing our borders. This must be done first before we even think of deporting massive amounts of illegals. Once the borders are secure, fine heavily any employers who are found to hire illegals. Increase the amounts of legal immigrants accepted each year. Then start deporting. It is not a short term solution, but it is a solution that in the long term may save our country quite a bit. We also need to make the sanctuary cities and ordinances illegal and force the municipalities to enforce the laws or their budgets will be cut accordingly.
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LucasJamison

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Re: Cost of Illegal aliens
« Reply #5 on: October 03, 2008, 02:17:36 PM »

Just a point on #3 to clarify, the groups primarily are not Anti-immigrant groups, they are anti-illegal immigrant groups. It is a big distinction.

I agree, that is an important distinction, and I know you've said repeatedly your problem is only with illegal immigrants, but their are a number of groups that regardless of what they say, their position papers and policy recommendations are strongly anti-immigration as a whole. I haven't explored all of the original source material for the links yet, but I'll try to note in my reply to the poins which data comes from groups opposing ANY immigration, and which comes from groups that legitimately seem only to have issues with illegal immigration.

Quote
As far as deportation is concerned, I believe that a bunch of detention centers should be built. These would be equiped with Medical Clinics and other services. I believe that those who are detained for any reason or those who go for medical treatment or to sign up for any government services should be instead taken to these detention centers and given proper medical care first, then sent home. It is humane and will cost far less than the future costs generated by illegals on the public dole. This will only work of course if we have ways of securing our borders. This must be done first before we even think of deporting massive amounts of illegals. Once the borders are secure, fine heavily any employers who are found to hire illegals. Increase the amounts of legal immigrants accepted each year. Then start deporting. It is not a short term solution, but it is a solution that in the long term may save our country quite a bit. We also need to make the sanctuary cities and ordinances illegal and force the municipalities to enforce the laws or their budgets will be cut accordingly.

I think it's also worth noting that all of these cost/benefit analyses only report on the cost in tax-payer funded services vs. a portion (not all, as it happens) of the tax revenues collected. They do not address total economic contributions - ie: productivity/output. the impact on the profit margins of their employers (and, in turn, the taxes collected as a result of these performance improvements). Obviously, these are harder numbers to measure, but I'd say its an important consideration.
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Frigemall

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Re: Cost of Illegal aliens
« Reply #6 on: January 28, 2009, 07:34:41 AM »

 From the L. A. Times
1.40% of all workers in L. A. County ( L. A. County has 10.2 million people )are working for cash and not paying taxes. This is because they are predominantly illegal immigrants working without a green card.
2.95%  of warrants for murder in Los Angeles are for illegal aliens.
3.75% of people on the most wanted list in Los Angeles are illegal aliens.
4.Over 2/3 of all births in Los Angeles County are to illegal alien Mexicans on Medi-Cal , whose births were paid for by taxpayers.
5.Nearly 35% of all inmates in California detention centers are Mexican nationals here illegally
6.Over 300,000 illegal aliens in Los Angeles County are living in garages.
7. The FBI reports half of all gang members in Los Angeles are most likely illegal aliens from south of the border.
8.Nearly 60% of all occupants of HUD properties are illegal.
9. 21 radio stations in L. A. are Spanish speaking.
10. In L. A. County 5.1 million people speak English, 3.9 million speak Spanish.
(There are 10.2 million people in L. A. County )

(All 10 of the above are from the Los Angeles Times)

Less than 2% of illegal aliens are picking our crops, but 29% are on welfare. Over 70% of the United States ' annual population growth (and over 90% of California , Florida , and New York ) results from immigration. 29% of inmates in federal prisons are illegal aliens.
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LucasJamison

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Re: Cost of Illegal aliens
« Reply #7 on: January 28, 2009, 08:56:08 AM »

I am always hard pressed to tell if people who buy these things are just remarkably credulous, or have malicious intent in continuing the spread of misinformation.

Google twice, send never, is a good rule for e-mail forwards like this.

http://www.snopes.com/politics/immigration/taxes.asp

Also, remember when you got pissy when I mentioned racism in the other immigration thread? Why on earth do stats like the fact that there are 21 Spanish language media outlets in LA get stuck in with other scare stats on this list? As if the entire hispanic / latin@ population of LA County is illegal? That smacks of a certain degree of racism / xenophobia, and if you can't see it, you need your eyes checked.
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Frigemall

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Re: Cost of Illegal aliens
« Reply #8 on: January 28, 2009, 11:30:44 AM »

  I just read the Scopes link you posted, nothing noted was disproven. It says it could be distorted or inacurate but states the references they were pulled from. Noone doubts the fact that illegal aliens are a major drain on our economic and justice systems. If the numbers are even close, they are significant. We talk about financial difficulties in this country and yet we will not do what is necessary to close our borders to illegals and stop this significant problem. Also one more note. Not all illegals are of Mexican origin. There are several other groups of illegal aliens within our borders, the mexican illegals simply outnumber them significantly.
  As far as the seeming racism, as I have stated before, I have no problem with legal immigrants. Legal immigration is what this country was built on and is vital to the country moving forward. I believe the reason the amount of Spanish Centers and things were mentioned is simply because if you used the percentage of just the legal hispanic citizens of California in to account you would not need as many of these centers to help them. Plus as a citizen you are required to learn the language to the point of taking a test, therefore no spanish centers would be needed. Every time one of those places is built, it is done so with tax dollars. I am sure we could find much better uses for that money, especially when I believe California is way over their budget for spending and relies heavily on National moneys to continue to provide these services. I do not think this is racist in the slightist. If you do perhaps it is you who have a skewed veiwpoint.
« Last Edit: January 28, 2009, 11:34:07 AM by Frigemall »
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LucasJamison

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Re: Cost of Illegal aliens
« Reply #9 on: January 28, 2009, 12:38:19 PM »

I just read the Scopes link you posted, nothing noted was disproven.

Oh? So the statistic on % of births, for instance? Factoid #1? Read a bit closer, then come back.

Noone doubts the fact that illegal aliens are a major drain on our economic and justice systems.

I actually do doubt that, hence this discussion.

If the numbers are even close, they are significant.

Well, no, and not necessarily.

We talk about financial difficulties in this country and yet we will not do what is necessary to close our borders to illegals and stop this significant problem. Also one more note.

Please see my many previous notes regarding the cost/benefit of "what is necessary". You really haven't addressed this other than to suggest that 1.3 trillion dollar subsidy of citizens/legal residents working in the US would somehow result in a cost savings of 338 billion, which is obviously absurd!

Not all illegals are of Mexican origin. There are several other groups of illegal aliens within our borders, the mexican illegals simply outnumber them significantly.

Is there anyone who doesn't know this?

I believe the reason the amount of Spanish Centers and things were mentioned is simply because if you used the percentage of just the legal hispanic citizens of California in to account you would not need as many of these centers to help them. Plus as a citizen you are required to learn the language to the point of taking a test, therefore no spanish centers would be needed. Every time one of those places is built, it is done so with tax dollars. I am sure we could find much better uses for that money, especially when I believe California is way over their budget for spending and relies heavily on National moneys to continue to provide these services. I do not think this is racist in the slightist. If you do perhaps it is you who have a skewed veiwpoint.

Umm... WTF are you talking about? The statistic, as well as my comment, related to MEDIA OUTLETS. These are not community outreach centers! Skewed who now?
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SigmaCaine

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Re: Cost of Illegal aliens
« Reply #10 on: January 28, 2009, 11:41:01 PM »

From the L. A. Times
1.40% of all workers in L. A. County ( L. A. County has 10.2 million people )are working for cash and not paying taxes. This is because they are predominantly illegal immigrants working without a green card.
What is the employment percentage of L.A. County compared to the population? For that matter, what is the percentage of the population that is considered employable at all (i.e. over 16 but before retirement age, not so sick they can't work, etc.)? Is this statistic analogous to the percentage of people working who are illegal immigrants? In other words, are there 4,080,000 illegal immigrants in L.A. County? It's somewhat important to have context for the rest of the statistics.

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2.95%  of warrants for murder in Los Angeles are for illegal aliens.
Like this one. 97.05% of murder warrants being for legal residents seems a bit unbalanced; if it's not a reporting mistake then I'd much rather have the apparently less-murderous illegal immigrants than the homicide-crazed citizens! What I *really* suspect is that these statistics are not controlled for things like, oh, L.A. gangs. Also, I'm annoyed that this is a statistic for arrest *warrants*. I would *prefer* to see the statistics for actual convictions. After all, according to the American justice system, those people the warrants are for are innocent.1 Besides that, warrants have a time span on them that might be different from the timeframe used for the rest of the statistics. It's important to be consistent.

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4.Over 2/3 of all births in Los Angeles County are to illegal alien Mexicans on Medi-Cal , whose births were paid for by taxpayers.
So the dominant population of the city in roughly 18 years will be Mexican, and they'll be legal. Interesting. Perhaps it will help the "I don't need to learn other languages; the rest of the world will just learn English" mentality that's so prevalent these days. Though really, wouldn't you be pleased that taxpayer money is going to help the less fortunate and not lining some town councilor's pocket? Unless you think Mexicans are somehow less worth of help.

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5.Nearly 35% of all inmates in California detention centers are Mexican nationals here illegally
What are they in for? Not murder, apparently. Maybe for working illegally? "Oh no, 33% of inmates who are here illegally are in jail for being illegal!" is not a significant statistic. This needs a more detailed breakdown.

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6.Over 300,000 illegal aliens in Los Angeles County are living in garages.
The garages at people's homes, parking garages, or auto-body garages? "Homes" says these 300,000 people are probably family of people who are here legally and so they're probably the highest-probability group to actually become a citizen. "Parking garages" says "homeless", which is far worse. "Auto-body garages" at least implies that they're doing something to earn their keep and might just be responsible enough to become a real citizen someday. Very different situations.

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7. The FBI reports half of all gang members in Los Angeles are most likely illegal aliens from south of the border.
But they're not the murdering-people kind of gangs, or else the warrant spread would be more balanced. Unless Latinos are somehow crafty enough to evade the police more often? This is one of those possibly-genetic things that I'd like to know but not in a situation where I'm forced to find out.

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9. 21 radio stations in L. A. are Spanish speaking.
What does this have to do with anything?

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10. In L. A. County 5.1 million people speak English, 3.9 million speak Spanish.
(There are 10.2 million people in L. A. County )
So 1.2 million people speak... what? And how much overlap is there? I want a Venn diagram! THIS IS THE PERFECT SITUATION FOR A VENN DIAGRAM! I seriously doubt all 5.1 million English-speakers have no grasp of Spanish, and vice versa, which makes me really curious what everyone else is speaking!

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Less than 2% of illegal aliens are picking our crops, but 29% are on welfare.


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Over 70% of the United States ' annual population growth (and over 90% of California , Florida , and New York ) results from immigration.

Uh... yes. Major metropolitan areas do tend to have most of their population emigrate. They are gateways. Also, that statistic doesn't mention how much of the immigration is illegal, making it irrelevant to your argument.

Actually, wait, what is your argument?

1No, I don't really believe all those warrants are mistakes. But we must consider the possibility that they are, lest these people not have a fair trial.
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Frigemall

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Re: Cost of Illegal aliens
« Reply #11 on: January 29, 2009, 08:06:20 AM »

Oh? So the statistic on % of births, for instance? Factoid #1? Read a bit closer, then come back.
That is an assumption they are making, as is obvious, not all illegals are Mexican. I am not sure where the stat came from, but the "fact checking" site is still making an assumption.
I actually do doubt that, hence this discussion.
Then I kind of envy your lack of perspective. I kind of wish I could have the bliss of being ignorant in this case. The illegals, especially along the border states are a real problem. There are gangs attacking across the borders of California,Texas, Arizona, and New Mexico, killing robbing and raping American citizens at alarming rates. The school systems in these states are overwhelmed with anchor babies, causing the schools to be overwhelmed. Since many of these are paying little to no property taxes, it is a huge burden to the tax payers in those areas. Since most of them have no health care, they are overwhelming the medical system there. The parents of Anchor babies get welfare benefits and food cards. The also crowd the already stuffed shelters. Much of the money they earn from the work they do, mostly under the table and therefore not taxed, gets sent back to Mexico or whatever their country of origin is. Yes it is a significant financial problem.
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Frigemall

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Re: Cost of Illegal aliens
« Reply #12 on: January 29, 2009, 08:54:20 AM »

After all, according to the American justice system, those people the warrants are for are innocent.1 Besides that, warrants have a time span on them that might be different from the timeframe used for the rest of the statistics. It's important to be consistent.
1No, I don't really believe all those warrants are mistakes. But we must consider the possibility that they are, lest these people not have a fair trial.
The problem is that they are not citizens and are simply not covered by the U.S. Constitution. They are not entitled to a trial under our constitution. They do not have the same rights as citizens. They would be covered under the constitution of whatever country of origin they are from. There are completely different laws concerning someone who is not a citizen who commits a crime (aledgedly or not) on our soil. I know it only seems fair that everyone get the same rights if they are here, but it simply is not so.
So the dominant population of the city in roughly 18 years will be Mexican, and they'll be legal. Interesting. Perhaps it will help the "I don't need to learn other languages; the rest of the world will just learn English" mentality that's so prevalent these days. Though really, wouldn't you be pleased that taxpayer money is going to help the less fortunate and not lining some town councilor's pocket? Unless you think Mexicans are somehow less worth of help.
I work in a homeless shelter, working for significantly less than what I could be, simply because I do want to help the less fortunate. Under no circumstances do I discriminate against any coming for help. I do however look at this situation differently. When the border could be secured, making it not necessary to spend Billions, if not Trillions to help a population that should not be here in the first place, yes that frustrates me. We have our own financial difficulties in the U.S. without the added problem of a poor illegal subculture that has no interest in learning to speak our language or integrating into society, but want all the benefits of being in the U.S. system.
What are they in for? Not murder, apparently. Maybe for working illegally? "Oh no, 33% of inmates who are here illegally are in jail for being illegal!" is not a significant statistic. This needs a more detailed breakdown.
If we secured the borders and fined buisinesses and individuals heavily for employing illegals, to the point where it was not fiscally worth it to employ illegals, we would not have to worry about the problems caused by so many illegals in our jails, (which by the way is also expensive to tax payers).

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LucasJamison

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Re: Cost of Illegal aliens
« Reply #13 on: January 29, 2009, 11:55:44 AM »

That is an assumption they are making, as is obvious, not all illegals are Mexican. I am not sure where the stat came from, but the "fact checking" site is still making an assumption.

The assumption they are making is that not all hispanic births are due to illegal immigration, not that not all illegals are of Mexican origin. The "fact" that is being checked here is the 2/3rd of all births are due to illegal immigration. Checking finds out that 2/3rd of all births have ethnicity labelled hispanic. So, given that not all hispanics are illegal and not all illegals are hispanics, the folks at Snopes ASSUME that the person who wrote the list that became the e-mail misattributed the stat (66% births in LA county = hispanic | TRUE, vs 66% births in LA county = illegal | FALSE). The other alternative is that the author did an independent analysis and came up with the 66% stat independently. You seem to feel this is a reasonable assumption. I would like to know why.
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SigmaCaine

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Re: Cost of Illegal aliens
« Reply #14 on: January 29, 2009, 12:43:52 PM »

The problem is that they are not citizens and are simply not covered by the U.S. Constitution. They are not entitled to a trial under our constitution.

Way to pick on the least important (and yet, I suppose, most important) thing out of everything else. Of course they're entitled to a trial! If you actually believe in the *principles* of the Constitution, that is, and are not just using it as a document to give yourself more status and privilege. They're just not entitled to have the U.S. government pay for it. The point here is that just because they are Hispanic they should not be immediately assumed to be guilty - the principles that guided the writing of the Constitution are based upon the basic rights of all humans, and Hispanics are people too! Thus, the statistic for *convictions* is much more interesting.

I note you didn't respond to any of the other points, which were mostly requests for more clarifying data. Do you not have any? Do you not want to go looking for it? Is that why you picked this point, because it doesn't require any research? You put forth all these claims; it is on your shoulders to prove them. Find the rest of the data, and then I might listen to what you have to say. Otherwise, I'm going to lump you in with the rest of the very religious conservative middle-aged white men out there.
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