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Author Topic: Man made Global Warming shown to be a Hoax  (Read 3914 times)

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Mack Ravensline

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Re: Man made Global Warming shown to be a Hoax
« Reply #1 on: November 29, 2009, 09:09:25 AM »

The data that the Copenhagen conference is using has been shown to be very suspect. The UN, Al Gore and most of the Global Warming Alarmist use to support their position is most put out by this organisation. It is bad science. It has been doctored and altered to show what they want it to mostly for profit and political control. Who says science does not have an adjenda.
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LucasJamison

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Re: Man made Global Warming shown to be a Hoax
« Reply #2 on: December 01, 2009, 10:25:38 AM »

The data that the Copenhagen conference is using has been shown to be very suspect.

I see you're learning the art of senationalist headlining. "Man made Global Warming shown to be a Hoax", of course, being a completely false statement. "data shown to be highly suspect" is not a completely false statement because many people remain skeptical (whether or not their skepticism is justified need not be addressed to support the statement).

The newstainment industry loves this format of bullshit attention grabbing headline modified by less clearly false statements in the body. One of many things I dislike about the newstainment industry.

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The UN, Al Gore and most of the Global Warming Alarmist use to support their position is most put out by this organisation.

A mostly true statement, hidden in amongst the rest. Lovely!

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It is bad science.

That's an interesting accusation. Why is it bad science? While you didn't see fit to support that claim, nor did the article to which you linked, it seems most of the at least marginally scientifically credentialled folks who come down on the skeptical side here cite either deficiencies in the models or inability to independently verify raw data. Either, on its face, could be called at least a somewhat reasonable problem.

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It has been doctored and altered to show what they want it to mostly for profit and political control.

Somewhat separate from being bad science - you can have quite good science done in the name of profit and political control, and quite bad science done altruistically. That said, neither the article or the documents in question indicate that this claim is true. What do you base the claim on?

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Who says science does not have an adjenda.

Well, 'science' is unlikely to have an agenda. An individual scientist is as likely as the next person, I suppose.
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Horace

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Re: Man made Global Warming shown to be a Hoax
« Reply #3 on: December 01, 2009, 01:27:09 PM »

In order to believe that mankind caused global warming, one must believe that at the peak of the last ice age, there were enough humans on the planet that their cook fires generated enough CO2 to alter the climate.
If that were true, then the first ten years of the industrial revolution would likely have wiped out all life on earth.

Global warming is real, as shown by the fact that the last ice age ended.
Mankind, at worst has contributed in an astronomically miniscule way.
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I'm not really as scary as some people think I am. (re something Julie said to me at reg one night)

Having seen a video (Thanks dave and CAH) I now understand why she said that.

LucasJamison

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Re: Man made Global Warming shown to be a Hoax
« Reply #4 on: December 01, 2009, 01:54:17 PM »

In order to believe that mankind caused global warming, one must believe that at the peak of the last ice age, there were enough humans on the planet that their cook fires generated enough CO2 to alter the climate. If that were true, then the first ten years of the industrial revolution would likely have wiped out all life on earth.

This is a series of ridiculous statements. No one claims human activities are the sole cause of all historical or recent warming, except in strawperson arguments expressed by people who are claiming that humans have have had little to no impact.

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Global warming is real, as shown by the fact that the last ice age ended. Mankind, at worst has contributed in an astronomically miniscule way.

Which is a bit more pertinent. There are those who deny warming/cooling cycles entirely, actually, though I hope we can both agree they are clearly in the wrong.

That said, yes, the key scientific issues are a) whether human activities have an impact on these cycles and b) to what degree. Following on those items, you have a variety of more or less related policy issues that are greatly affected by the answers to those questions.

And you don't even bother to support for your claim that the anwers are 'possibly, but not much' and 'little, if any', respectively.
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Mack Ravensline

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Re: Man made Global Warming shown to be a Hoax
« Reply #5 on: December 04, 2009, 04:48:01 PM »

 It is obvious you have not gotten this story from the liberal news sources you read. http://www.wnd.com/?pageId=116657
http://globalwarmingisahoax.blogspot.com/
Now it appears NASA has also been guilty of fudging data
http://www.globalwarminghoax.com/news.php?extend.24
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Mack Ravensline

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Re: Man made Global Warming shown to be a Hoax
« Reply #6 on: December 04, 2009, 05:38:44 PM »

OK, let me explain why I call Man-made Glabal Warming bad science. When I refer to they see above stories. 1) The data they use to make up their models is found by picking and choosing only data that supports their assertions. They throw out all other data, no matter how volumnus. 2) They have fudged data, purposely changing numbers to fit their models. 3) Their models are made up solely on the thought that CO2 is what causes global warming. What many objective climatologist have found is that the planet goes through cooling and warming cycles. Some of the highest temps on record were found during the 1930s. Some of the coolest were found in the late 1960s, early 1970s. Thus the theory of Global cooling that was popular amongst scientists of the 60s and 70s. I remember it being taught in schools. Many climatologist believe it is more linked to solar flares which spike during some periods of time, and from the limited data it seems like a 70 year cycle of cooling and warming. We have little to no effect on temp. change.
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LucasJamison

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Re: Man made Global Warming shown to be a Hoax
« Reply #7 on: December 08, 2009, 12:27:46 PM »

It is obvious you have not gotten this story from the liberal news sources you read.

No, I was pretty clear on the fact that a bunch of e-mails were stolen and released to various sources. I was reading through them the other day, starting with the most recent, but only made it back as far as the summer. A lot of the science being discussed relies on math that makes my brain hurt, and the rest was kinda bland. Ran some full text searches for variants of 'evil liberal conspiracy' that came up totally empty, though.

Now it appears NASA has also been guilty of fudging data

Maybe the link you were thinking of was different? This one is from two years ago and says that NASA updated something on their website, and that somehow this constitutes a conspiracy of sorts? I wasn't able to follow the crazy-logic being used to support the case.
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Mack Ravensline

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« Last Edit: December 22, 2009, 12:36:50 PM by Mack Ravensline »
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Kate Beaman-Martinez

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Re: Man made Global Warming shown to be a Hoax
« Reply #9 on: December 25, 2009, 11:26:03 AM »

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Mack Ravensline

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Re: Man made Global Warming shown to be a Hoax
« Reply #10 on: December 26, 2009, 09:20:16 AM »

The problem is it does not create a better world. Green jobs usually come at the cost of about two regular jobs. The environmental regulations usually cause far reaching problems like higher energy costs, huge fines to buisinesses that simply get passed on to consumers, redistribution of wealth from primarily the US and a few European Countries, etc. The myth that these Green initiative would somehow make this world a better place are misguided at best. Most of the Global Warming initiatives are designed primarily to make those who control the industry more power and money. If these initiatives are put into place the US primarily will by necessity have to turn over some of our soveriegnty within our own borders and great deals of our capitol (which if we haven't noticed, we have precious little of as marked by our $14 Trillion debt). We can't affordthis nonsence and it is even more reprehensible that they knew the science was bad and tried to hide it so the gravy train and the power flow would keep on going.
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Mark

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Re: Man made Global Warming shown to be a Hoax
« Reply #11 on: January 04, 2010, 11:00:43 PM »

The hacked emails that were released do not show that man made global warming is a hoax.

What they do show is that there is a very strong political aspect to the issue. This is inevitable when large sums of money are involved as is the case in climate research. If global warming is not due to human influence there could be far less outcry and therefore less money for research. Science is supposed to be about truth but scientists are people and people have egos. Scientists do research to prove a theory and by definition will create experiments and studies to support their position. This is, and always will be, the way science is done. But I take exception when research counter to the prevailing theory is suppressed and that is certainly happening with regard to climate research. This absolutely calls into question the conclusions that global warming is due to human influence. It is imperative for good science that positions be defended against counter arguments, explanations, and evidence.

I have read a fair amount on both sides of the issue. Here are a few bits of evidence I have found to support the idea that global warming is not significantly the result of human influence:
      In order to show a conclusive connection between global warming and human influences researchers have to "cook the books" to borrow a phrase from accounting.
      Attempts to publicize counter evidence are often thwarted by those in the majority. Again, politics.
      Glacial recession, a very common argument for global warming, has been documented back as far as the 17th century.
      Solar activity, strongly correlated to climate, is very low.

All this said, it is clear that the Earth's climate is changing. It is also clear that the scientific community, as well as everyone else, doesn't have an F'n clue what exactly is going on. There is a growing body of evidence that, despite all the global warming evidence, the planet is heading toward a new ICE AGE. I found this story to be very revealing: http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/sorry-to-ruin-the-fun-but-an-ice-age-cometh/story-e6frg73o-1111116134873

So is the cooling trend the reality and global warming just a blip? Was 2007 just a momentary cooling on the way up the thermometer? Are we going to cook or freeze? Does anybody KNOW?

No, nobody KNOWS what is happening or what will happen. And without honest, unfettered investigation nobody will until it's too late one way or the other.

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Mack Ravensline

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Re: Man made Global Warming shown to be a Hoax
« Reply #12 on: January 05, 2010, 11:42:56 AM »

I very much believe that research needs to be done concerning Global Weather patterns. It is not in question that there have been time frames where the temperature has gone up, and gone down for periods of time. The 90s seemed to be a warming trend that had started in the mid to late 80s. It stopped and has not continued for most of the last decade. Now again it seems as if we are going into a cooling pattern. When the temperatures have been estimated on other planets with the limited ways we have of doing so it appears that the same patterns affect each of the planets in our system. Politics is absolutely a part of this. There is alot of money involved in industries, and the research stations themselves. Unfortunately they are using this bad science to restrict peoples freedoms. I agree with recycling and other methods that can be done profitably to reuse our resources, however there is a more sinister side that is all about control, money, and power. This movement must be shown to be false so that true objective science can move forward. Note to Al Gore, the debate is far from over.
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Horace

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Re: Man made Global Warming shown to be a Hoax
« Reply #13 on: January 05, 2010, 02:28:12 PM »

The fact that some of the so called scientists supporting the Anthropomorphic Global Warming hoax have threatened to destroy their research data rather than let it become public, causes an incredible amount of rational doubt as to their credibility. One does not threaten to destroy the research data if it supports what they are claiming. If it supported them, they'd publicize it for everyone to see.

This is a series of ridiculous statements. No one claims human activities are the sole cause of all historical or recent warming,


Watch Al Gores movie, where he says "there is consensus among scientists that man kind caused global warming". (quote may not be verbatim, but the meaning is accurate) Yes, there are many, including thousands of scientists, who agree with him.
Considering the number of scientists around the world that disagree, the first part of that statement is such an obvious and blatant lie that it proves Al Gore has no self respect or integrity at all, as well as eliminating any shred of credibility he might have once had claim to. And it also tells you what he thinks about the intelligence of the people who watched the movie. (can you say "elitist hypocrite"?)

Whether or not mankind has contributed to global warming is still very much an open question, as is the question of how much, if any.
As for my opinion that if we have, it is a miniscule amount, I think it is well founded. Consider for example that we have no conclusive proof of how much the temperature has risen (and sometimes fallen) in previous centuries. All we can do is approximate. Two hundred years ago, few people had thermometers, and those who did had no where near the accuracy of the ones available today. So we can not conclusively say that the temperature has risen at a faster rate since the industrial revolution.

Then consider the cooling trend we have been experiencing for approximately a decade.

Does more research need to be done? Absolutely.
Do we need to find alternative energy sources and more efficient and cleaner uses of what we have now? Absolutely.
Do we need to panic and rush in to bad treaties that when you read them, will do little to actually reduce CO2 emmissions, will kill economies, and give away little pieces of sovereignty? (the Coppenhagen proposal gave the ability for foreigners to levy taxes and penalties against American people and businesses without any due process) Absolutely NOT.

Here is a small part of the list of sources I get info on this subject from.
http://oism.org/pproject/
http://www.cato.org/pubs/regulation/regv15n2/reg15n2g.html
http://www.examiner.com/examiner/x-7715-Portland-Civil-Rights-Examiner~y2009m8d18-Carbon-Dioxide-irrelevant-in-climate-debate-says-MIT-Scientist
http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/jamesdelingpole/100017393/climategate-the-final-nail-in-the-coffin-of-anthropogenic-global-warming/
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704888404574547730924988354.html
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704779704574553652849094482.html

More recent about global cooling (put "global cooling" in your google search to get much more)
http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=NTlhOTNiOWFlMmMzNmJkOWM3ZTk5NWJkNTU2Nzk5NWI=
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2009/nov/24/hiding-evidence-of-global-cooling/
http://www.newsbusters.org/blogs/p-j-gladnick/2009/06/15/will-widespread-global-cooling-reports-freeze-al-gore-media-credibilit
http://www.mandyjo.net/?p=17969

And of course there is the little brag I find humorous, but true:
I have completed more college level course work, and had more first hand experience working on/in the environment (and recieved college credits for it) than Al Gore.
I also dont fly around in a huge, private jumbo jet and drive around in convoys of huge gas guzzling, CO2 spewing SUV's, while preaching how evil those same things are.
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I'm not really as scary as some people think I am. (re something Julie said to me at reg one night)

Having seen a video (Thanks dave and CAH) I now understand why she said that.

Mark

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Re: Man made Global Warming shown to be a Hoax
« Reply #14 on: January 06, 2010, 11:44:39 AM »

Don't even get me started on the Evil Henchman Algore; oops, too late.

That SOB is the poster child for how little this issue is about the climate and how much it's about promoting one's own agenda while lining your pockets.

He lost what little credibility he had (not much) when it was revealed that he didn't start buying green energy for his over sized residences until public records were revealed that showed he wasn't using green energy offsets despite claiming that he did.

He went from "OK, he has a view that I don't agree with but I'm open minded enough to know that I don't know everything" to "OK, he's a self serving hypocritical F'ing SOB that doesn't give a damn about the issue but is more than happy to use it to his advantage."

http://www.usatoday.com/news/opinion/editorials/2006-08-09-gore-green_x.htm

I love the quote at the end of the second paragraph: "But if Al Gore is the world's role model for ecology, the planet is doomed."

But I still keep an open mind about the ISSUE. There is still the question about what the climate is actually doing. Whether it's because of us or in spite of us we have a crucial need to know and act appropriately.
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Pillage, then burn.

Everything is air-droppable at least once.

A soft answer turneth away wrath. Once wrath is looking the other way, shoot it in the head.

That which does not kill you has made a tactical error.

There is no "overkill".  There is only "Open Fire" and "Time to Reload!"
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